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Welcome to the Worst Bestsellers, where we read about sexy Scottish time travel so you don’t have to. I’m Kait–
–and I’m Renata.
And for this episode we’ve read Outlander by Diana Gabaldon. Joining us for this episode is Erica, who hangs out a lot on the internet. Hi, Erica.
Well, I guess first off, I should start off by saying that if you’re listening to this on Monday, January 5th, you should know that we posted two special year end episodes over the weekend on January 3rd and 4th. They’re our Best and Worst of 2014. And they should be up on the website and available in iTunes and Stitcher. If you want to hear us literally cry over books and talk about how we used to literally cry over documentaries.
That–that to me feels like it was 200 years ago because of how long it took me to read Outlander. I feel as though I time traveled 200 years into the future, and I spent all of those years trying to get through this book.
Oh my God.
Kait is gonna say “This was a book that we read” and it really is more like five books we read.
That’s true. Yeah. Because they were like, “Part One,” this–“Part Five,” what–I forget, they all had sort of dramatic names.
“A Whiff of Brimstone. ”
Thank you. Yes, like, that.
But they all also, like, didn’t relate to each other at all, which is what was so frustrating to me. Like, with the exception of one recurring plotline about this, like, rapey, British General, nothing that happened in each of the prior sections had much…you know, effect on things that happened later.
I mean, they kind of did. Well, okay, let’s, let’s go through. I mean, there’s so much stuff that happens, maybe we should just–okay, first of all, I guess if you are unfamiliar with the basic Outlander concept, it is this: a woman named Claire, who was a World War Two, British nurse, accidentally time travels back to 1743 Scotland, and has a lot of sexy adventures there.
And let me start off with a short anecdote, which is that–so this book series is pretty popular, and also there’s a spin off television show about it. Despite knowing both of these things, the only stuff about it that I had absorbed with that a) it took place in olden times Scotland and b) the protagonist’s name was Claire. So when I started reading the book, and it was like post-war Scotland, I was assuming that it was a frame story. So I kept like reading and it kept going, going and going. And the girl’s name was Claire. And I knew that was the name of the olden times Scottish lady. And I was really, really confused until I’d read like 40 pages. And I finally said out loud to my roommate, like, “This book is really weird!” And before I could say, “the frame story will never end,” she was like, “Oh, it’s about time travel, right?” And I think I was the only person on the planet who didn’t realize that it was about time travel. So.
I think that’s actually true, Kait.
Yeah, yeah. Cuz she sent me an email that was just like, “Have you started reading Outlander yet?” And it was like, “Yeah, I’m not very far into it. She hasn’t time traveled.” Yeah. And she was like, “Oh.”
Everyone knew it was about time travel but me.
Yeah, it is. Well, I guess we both had the Kindle edition. I also got the paper copy from the library. And then I returned it because it is infinity pages long and I didn’t want to carry it around. But the cover has like a pocket watch on it. And like some–you know, so you know it’s about time travel and you don’t get tricked.
Like I did.
I had actually read this book before, but that was in like, 2001. So I’d forgotten like, 99% of it.
There’s, I mean, there’s so much to forget.
But I also have, like, I know, you guys haven’t seen the TV show, I have, but I’m not going to talk about it a lot except for one thing we’ll get to later. But–
Okay, good. I’m just curious about the show, but not enough that I think I’ll actually watch it probably,
That’s fair. But at least that gave me like some things to know, like, plot points that were coming. So I had some sense of time moving as I continue to read and read and read.
Yeah, that would have been nice, because I had, I had no idea what was coming. Um, okay, so. So she first–Also this book, it seemed to me like it was trying to trick me into learning British history. And I didn’t want to. So there’s a, there’s a, a lot in here–actually it’s trying to–actually–Okay, it feels like she did a bunch of research on Scotland. And she was like, “This is all interesting, I will use all of it. I will use all of this information I learned about how to study genealogy. Here’s a whole chapter, there’s actually just teaching you how to make a family tree. Now I will teach you all about herbs. Here are seven chapters about all the different kinds of herbs there are in Scotland. Now, here’s all the chapters about the rebellion in Scotland.” And like, all this stuff, and I did not care.
I actually think that is one of the like, biggest flaws of the book is that she felt the need to show all her research. Like, I don’t care about a horse’s vagina, I don’t care that much about historical weaponry.
There were so many fucking herbs!
Let’s talk about what actually happens in the book, so then we can talk about how fucked up everything that happens in the book is.
So just imagine though, as we tell you this, we’re gonna run through the main plot points. But, like, to get to each plot point you did literally–you had to go through, like, so much about herbs, and like, the economy, and like, how to gather rent, and how to maintain an estate just, like, so much info dump about, like, how they used to do things in olden times.
Yeah, there are like, literally 10 major things we’re going to briefly talk about having happened. Imagine that each of them is 100 pages long. Like, to get to that point, you have to go through 100 pages. It’s…long, it’s a long book. So like we said, it starts off with this woman, Claire, who is reuniting with her husband, right after World War Two, and he was a soldier and she was a nurse. So they didn’t–and they got married right before the war, so they haven’t really spent much of their marriage together at this point. So they’re on this beautiful Scottish vacation. That’s mostly an excuse for him to research the genealogy of his ancestor, um…
Black Jack Randall.
Black Jack Randall.
Which seems like a real shitty trip, by the way. Like, I feel like Claire should have been way more resentful about it than she actually seemed to be.
And they’re also trying to get pregnant.
I think the thing was their first honeymoon had been there. Because–
Oh, yeah, that was part of it. You’re right.
Yeah. Because then they got–had–she–when she, spoiler alert, she marries the Scottish Highlander. They get married in the same church she got married in before.
Yeah. And they’re super trying to get pregnant. Like, to the point where he’s really mad that they’re, they don’t have babies yet.
What’s her husband’s name?
Yeah. So they–they’re on their–after doing lots of research about plants and herbs and genealogy for like 50 or 60 pages, they go to a standing rock formation, and spy like–
Like a henge.
But not Stonehenge, like a lesser henge.
Yes. A minor henge.
A wee henge.
That’s Scottish humor.
So when they spy on this ritual, and like, I don’t know if it’s the same day or like later that day, she has to go back, she left something. And she–
I think she went back to look at more herbs.
Oh right, right. And she like presses against one of the stones. And time travels back to olden times, Scotland.
1743 to be exact.
I’m just gonna call it olden times Scotland.
Fair. Okay, so then she’s there. And she meets Black Jack Randall, who’s her husband’s ancestor who looks exactly like him. So it’s freaky. And he, like, kind of tries to rape her and she’s like, “Ahhh! I’m a lady. I just got lost! Meh!” And then the Mackenzie’s come by, and there’s a bunch of them and they’re like, “Nah, she’s with us.” And then she goes with them, but she doesn’t really want to, but it seems like better than being with this rapey dude. And then the whole time she’s like,”Ahhh! I’m just a lady. I’m trying to go to France! Leave me alone.” And she kind of keeps–they’re, like, very distrustful of her, but they keep her with them because she’s a lady and like, what else are they gonna do?
Yeah, they–they think she’s a spy.
Oh, yeah. Everybody thinks she’s a spy.
So they don’t want to let her go because they think she’ll go back and give spy info.
Right, And so–and so, of course the man whose horse she shares is, uh, Jamie Fraser who is you know, super sexy, obviously.
And super, like, polite and nice to her and he’s injured when they first meet up–
And, constantly, constantly injured.
Yeah, constantly, which which we’ll get to later, but like, constantly injured. And since she has nurse training, she, like, fixes his dislocated shoulder and they’re all like, “Oh my god, it’s like magic. You know–you’re a lady and you know things about doctoring!” So they–when they get back to the castle that the whole–all the people are clansmen at, they set her up as like the the castle doctor and herb gatherer.
Yeah, so and she has to organize–like, she has to go through the old medicines left by the last guy. And a lot of it was really shady–there’s just pages and pages of like, “Can you believe they used to think, like, sheep dung was medicine? Pshaw.”
So she, like, is kind of fitting in. Like, she has, like, zero compunctions about having time traveled to olden times Scotland.
No, she is chill as hell about it. She’s like, “Well, this is my life now.”
Like once she figures that out, she’s like, “Well, I guess I should try to get back. But until then, like, this is fine.”
You know what? It’s ridiculous. But I kind of like–the way that set they set up her character as, you know, post World War Two nurse, and like, her practicality as her defining characteristic, I kind of, kind of bought it. She’s like, “Well, at least it’s not fucking Nazis, you know?”
It wasn’t the weirdest thing in this book, that’s for sure.
But just for the record, she is chill as hell about time travel.
So she’s like hanging out and, like, being BFF with this guy, Jamie. And all the women are, like, jealous and pissed at her because they all want to fuck him. And she’s like, “I don’t want to fuck him. I’m like–we’re just buddies.” And she, like, teases him about this teenage girl who has a crush on him. And then they tell her that she has to go out with the group to pick up rents from the people who live on, like, in the area that is commanded or ruled over by the castle. So she’s just kind of like, “Alright, you know, whatever, we’ll go out–”
Cause part of it is like, “Will you go this far with them? And then–and then you can get a boat to France,” or, like, something.
Oh, right. Right. Yeah, they tell her that they’ll drop her off at the British fort where the rapey Randall is the person in charge and that they can talk to her and then get her on a boat to France. And she goes with them because she figures that that fort is not far from where she went back in time. Like the–the wee henge.
Yeah, so they go out and, whatever. And then they find out that, like, Randall essentially wants to, like, imprison her, and–
And, like, beat her.
[And they think] she’s a spy too.
And she’s like, “I’m not a fucking spy” but she can’t tell the truth because she sounds crazy.
Yeah. And in order to keep her safe from them, they’re like, “All right, well, we’re going to marry you to someone in our clan, so you’ll be Scottish. So technically, they can’t take you and put you in jail like they’re planning on. So you have to marry this hot guy, Jamie, who, you know, you’re totally just BFF with and don’t want to bone at all! For convenience sake!
Yeah. Which, I mean, again, obviously, she’s done a ton of research. That seemed really shady to me. Like, obviously, they’ve arrested Jamie before. So it’s not like being a Scot–like, why does being a Scottish citizen, for her make her immune to this? Like, it seemed like a very convenient plot twist, which is fine. But.
Yeah, but you know, of course, once they are married, like, she totally does want to bone him and he’s a virgin.
And they have to bone because they set them up in, like, an inn and they’re like, “Well, in order to make sure that Randall doesn’t invalidate the wedding, we need witnesses to hear you guys fuck. So, like, you guys just, like, wait in here and there’s like 15 bros hanging outside to, like, listen.”
And she’s like, “Okay.”
That’s why they bone the first time, and then they do it, like, five more times the same night, just in case.
Make it extra official.
You know, and I get it. It’s totally so that she can be like, “Oh, well, I had–like I absolutely had to cheat on my husband.” You know, it’s sort of this, like…
Plus, there’s this other thing at the beginning which I laughed out loud once I figured out it was about time travel and not a frame story. Where in–back in post-war Scotland, um, her husband, Frank, is like, “Oh, when we were in the war, and, like, we were apart for six years, did you ever, like, get with anyone else?” She’s like, “No! Of course not!” And he goes, “Oh, well, I didn’t either. But I just want you to know that if anything were ever to happen and we were apart, I’d totally be okay with you getting with someone else.”
Yeah, she does have the permission.
Oh, so yeah, so she gets with–with hot Jamie. And various things happen and she, like, goes against him and he punishes her by, like, spanking her a lot.
Yeah, there’s like, sex–like, Scottish 50 Shades happening in there, too.
And, and, too–I mean, this book is obsessed with, like, corporal punishment. Jamie gets beaten one hundred thousand times. And he talks, also–
And they’re bad beatings.
And he talks so much, too, about like, when he was a kid, how much his dad used to beat him and how when they have kids, he’s gonna beat the kids, but not too much, just enough. Like, like, so I would say if we made a pie chart of this book. I mean, it’d be like 10%, herbs. Twenty–
20% would be like, violence, like, physical violence, and description of injury. 20% fucking.
Pie chart pieces can’t overlap, though, is the problem.
Right. That’s true. Yeah, we’re going to need a new form to express this. But the point is, there is a lot of beatings in this book. And only some of them are to Claire. A minority. Anyway, so…
They go back to the castle and, like, they tell everyone that they’re married, and everything’s going on for like, another 50 pages of doctoring and herb gathering and horse birthing.
Yes! And Claire makes a new friend who also really likes herbs. So they tell each other facts about herbs for many pages.
Um, and one day she’s going out when Jamie is away with this British Lord who they’re bros with, but who also rapes young boys, but they’re kind of okay with that. Even though he tried to rape Jamie when Jamie was a young boy.
It’s so weird and casual, how they’re like, “Oh, he’s a really nice guy, except that he like chases boys around and tries to rape them. Hahaha!”
And Jamie, like, laughs about how like, “Yeah, once he, like, cornered me in the horsebox and he was totally going to fuck me. And then, like, a horse got scared and knocked him over so I ran away but, like, whatever, we’re bros, I’m gonna go camping with him.”
So, Jamie’s on this camping trip with this rapey Lord and Claire goes to visit her new herb friend in town and the teenage girl who used to have a crush on Jamie, like, called the witchfinders on them and tells them that they’re witches.
Well, I was gonna say there’s actually this whole more complicated thing where the guy–like, Jamie’s uncle, the lord of the castle, called the witchfinders on the herb friend, cause–
Oh right, because also–
Anyway yeah, so Claire’s in a big pit and she’s gonna get killed cause–
Wait, is the herb friend’s name Jello?
Gay-lish? Gay-less? [Geillis]
[Laughter] Okay, but, I’m gonna call her Jello.
I think she was my favorite. Anyway, Jello, like– [laughter] was using herbs to poison her husband. [Laughter] And Claire figured it out because she–[laughter]
I can’t even–she tried to give him CPR. And she tasted the herb poison on his mouth.
And Jello is pregnant with the King’s brother’s illegitimate child. And because, like, already, um, the king can’t–he has a condition that I forgot which one, but he can’t have kids–
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he’s–and he’s like, his legs are messed up or something?
Yeah. And so he does have a kid, but it turns out that it’s–his brother was technically the father but like, no one knows that? Um–
Also, I don’t think he’s the king. He’s or he’s like the leader of the clan.
Yeah, yeah. I just keep saying King cause–
Yeah. Just to be clear. There are other actual kings in this book.
Yes. Yeah. So that’s why–so he called the witch–the witchfinders on Jello. And this teenager who had a crush on Jamie sent Claire to visit Jello knowing the witchfinders were coming. And that they would take her too.
Also. Also there’s a part, like, right before that where Jello, like, hypnotizes Claire, and almost gets her to admit to being a time traveler or something. Like, it’s really weird. And I’m not really–anyway. Remember what the candle and the smoke she burns, like, hypnotic smoke?
Yeah, so Jello is just all around weird and witchy and herby and so they–when they’re, like, getting ready to drown them to dunk, do the witch dunking to see if they’re actually witches, um, Jamie rides in to save Claire because someone had alerted him. And so they run off but before they run off, Jello takes off her clothes and proclaims that she’s a witch but Claire isn’t, and Claire sees that she has a polio vaccine scar.
And so does Claire. So they know at that moment that they’re both Time Travelers, but then they never mention that again.
They do. A little bit.
I wanted to mention about–that they kind of changed in the TV show because–I’m just going to call her Jello too–In the TV show, like, as soon as she starts setting up, like, literally all she does is stare at Claire meaningfully and ask super loaded questions and basically everything she does in the TV show is being like, “Claire, you’re a time traveler too, aren’t you? Admit it Claire. Tell me about your past, Claire,” and just being super obsessed with her and it’s awesome.
Good. Well cuz I wanted more Jello. I was–I am still like holding out hope that–well, who am I kidding? I’m not gonna read any more of these books. But if you told me that one of them was, like, further Adventures of Jello, I would at least read the Wikipedia summary.
She shows up in later books.
Yes. Ah, good.
All right, well, then I’ll give them a pass for–
Because the other thing is she gives a message through somebody, through some random Scotsman to get to Claire, that she was–oh, because she doesn’t–she doesn’t get drowned right away because she’s pregnant. So they wait till she gives birth to the baby. So she is kind of–they leave her in jail for a while and Claire leaves. But the message she passes is that she time traveled from, like, 1967, which is kind of weird because what it had–I, how I interpreted how the wee henge works is it always sends you exactly 200 years into the past. Because Claire makes a big point about that. And then that doesn’t really add up. But, whatever.
But, so, she’s supposedly dead or dying or put in jail to be killed later. And Jamie takes Claire away and they go to Jamie’s property that he owns that he’s not been able to go back of–back to because he’s been accused of murder. So he, like, needed to stay away to protect his sister, who’s still there and–but now I guess it’s okay for him go.
Yeah, that was never–I guess it was just like, “Well, now I care more about Claire than about me getting arrested.” Like it was not explained at all how it suddenly was okay for him to go back. But.
Yeah, and in the meantime, she tells him, like, the whole thing about being a time traveler, and he believes her, and he takes her back to the wee henge, but she decides that she would rather stay with him then go back to Frank in the past–in the future, because she loves him more. So she’s just going to stay in olden times Scotland forever.
And like, in a normal book, I feel like that would be the end of the book because that’s really the closest it has to an emotional climax?
But that’s like, not even halfway through.
No, this book is so long.
Yeah. So they–they go to–she goes to the land that Jamie owns they’re there for, like, another hundred and twenty pages. And they meet this sister and his brother-in-law.
Guess what, guys! They have herbs at Jamie’s house too!
Oh, there’s this whole weird part too, where, um, Randall the guy who had arrested Jamie and, like, beaten him. I guess the last time Jamie saw his sister had been when Randall came to arrest him. And Randall wanted to rape the sister. And they had this huge fight because Jamie was like, “No don’t rape her just kill me,” and Randall’s like, “No, I won’t, I’ll rape her,” and then he’s–I guess Jamie has been really upset about, like, how his sister’s honor has been destroyed, for, like, years, like, he’s just been like, “Ugh, like, it’s very well and good that Randall, like, beat me and almost killed me but my sister’s honor, meh.” And then, reveal: Randall didn’t rape her because he couldn’t get it up.
Because he can only have sex with women when they’re screaming and panicking. And she refused to scream–
And laughed at him.
Yeah, she laughed at him.
And laughed at him.
And what? Why is this in this book?
So she–so she’s not spoiled. And you know everything is okay until Jamie hires a little boy to work in the stables because his grandmother’s like, “Uh, his father beats him like hella a lot. So could you please get him out of the house?” And the father is not happy that he has no one to beat anymore, I guess? So he tells the British guys who are looking for Jamie for the murder he didn’t commit that he’s back, and they kidnap slash arrest him and take him to the fort where rapey Randall is in charge.
[crosstalk] Okay, so then–
[crosstalk] When Claire–
[crosstalk] This book is like the most indulgent hurt/comfort fic you have ever read.
Like Claire. Claire goes to save him because his godfather, who is one of the clansmen at the castle, comes to her. They, like, mount a rescue and it doesn’t work. And one of the the time she has to fight wolves–
Like, literal–literal wolves.
She literally kills a wolf.
Like, with her bare hands.
She obviously did a lot of research about how to fight a wolf.
And she–she manages to get in the castle and she gets captured. And then rapey Randall is like, “Well, I’ll either kill your wife and have this big oafish dude rape her, or you can let me like, have sex with you, but like lovingly, and you can’t fight, and it has to be tender and intimate.”
Like, yeah, I’ll take that deal.
By the way, guys. I think just for the record, we don’t normally think that rape is hilarious. But this is just like, the weirdest, like floweryest most unexpected–like, I genuinely had no idea there was so much–so much. I thought this is just like a romance novel, really. But there is so much gay panic anal rape in this book, and I did not know that. Did you know that?
No. I didn’t even know it was a time travel book.
It’s just like so over the top, like–
Yeah, it’s, it’s everything– Well, I want to talk about why I think it’s so over the top, let’s just, like, blow through the last couple plot points. So they rescue, they–Claire mounts a rescue. After unfortunately, he’s been lovingly, tenderly raped several times. And they escape and they have to go to France to get out of the country. And they go to this monastery where someone related to Jamie is the abbot. And they recover there. And there’s this, like, really weird, like, Jamie keeps doing worse. And then Claire does this weird hypnosis herb drug role play thing?
Yeah, I still don’t even know.
And it magically makes him better.
He’s like dying of blood poisoning. And she makes a bunch of incense and imitates his rapist. And he, like, gets superhuman strength and starts trying to kill her. And then he thinks she’s his mom. And then they do it. And then he’s better.
You’re right. And I think it started because he was being like real melodramatic. And he’s like, “Claire, I don’t need to see me like this. Go back to the wee henge and go back to the future.” And like, and he won’t see her anymore. And she’s like–well, I think her original thought is like, “Okay, well, then I’ll pretend like I’m Randall and then it’ll like motivate him to live?” But again, so weird.
Yeah. She’s magically pregnant and they decide that they’re going to go to Rome. To support someone.
The Scottish King? The Scottish King is in exile there because Catholicism. I don’t remember the King’s name.
Like I know the whole–they–what–
I’m afraid Renata will get mad at me for explaining British history to her.
I’ll give you 30 seconds, go.
Okay. So, everyone, all the Scottish people are going to die in a big battle in two years. So they want to go and see if they can stop that big battle from happening.
Okay. That was quick. All right. That’s a lot.
Yeah, Diana Gabaldon took like, 100 pages to get to that, and I just couldn’t.
Yeah. So that–that’s the book.
Wait. But. Okay. The very end of the book is that Claire reveals that she’s pregnant. But because her writing is so flowery and vague and fucking weird, I did not realize that was what was happening until I went back and read the Wikipedia summary of the book. And it was like, “And then Claire reveals her pregnancy.” I was like, “Wait, she did what?” And then I went back and reread it. I was like, “I guess she did kind of do that.”
She, like, touches her stomach and says like, “I have a gift for you.” And, like Renata said, she–she thought that, like, the gift was just like, “We’re gonna go bone.” And I can see why she would think that because it is, like, literally there’s no mention of pregnancy. She’s just like, “I have a gift for you.” And then touches her naked stomach.
Yeah, and he is like, “Oh.” Yeah, and now that I see it, like “still flat” I guess was the hint.
Yeah. That’s the code word.
But that’s it and he’s just like, he’s just like, “Oh, Aye?” and then it’s like end of book. Like what?
So, with that all said, here is some information that I learned about this book after I had started reading it. Um, my friend Andrea said on Twitter that apparently this started as, like, novel-length Doctor Who Mary Sue self insert fanfiction for one of the companions on Doctor Who who’s a Scottish dude named Jamie. And we’ve talked before on this show about how fanfiction is all well and good and published work is all well and good and they should both exist, but that fanfiction has certain other aims and purposes that it works towards that are out of place in publi–in published commercial fiction. And I think that that is one of the biggest–like, that, once I learned that everything about this book made sense.
Like how the main character just gets beaten, and raped and, like, tortured, and terrible things happened to him, so that his, like, loving wife can, you know heal him with sex and comfort and you know, the–how it’s like structured with, like, little tiny things that kind of tie together, but really, don’t really cohesively form one novel. It all makes sense now.
Yeah. Yeah, and that’s all well, and good. I mean, I’ve certainly read plenty of hurt/comfort fan fiction, and like, you know, that fills its purpose because like, you have your source material that has a plot sort of, and then you’re like, “Okay, but now I really just want 5000 words of them cuddling like, give me that.” And then this is like, “Okay, well, I hear you. But what if instead, I gave you–” I don’t know how long this book is, because I read it on Kindle, I’m going to assume it’s like 10,000 pages. “Like, here’s 10,000 pages of that. And like, don’t worry about the plot like this is–” Like, it’s almost like, it feels kind of like, “Oh, you like cake?” Like that–like in Matilda like, “Oh, you like cake? Well, I’m gonna make you eat this whole cake.” And I’m like, “No, I don’t want the whole cake. I wanted like some vegetables too, to, like, make this actually make sense, please.”
I was also looking at her main web page. And like, just in her description, of the book and the series, she basically says that she started writing this just as the how to write a novel whether she could do it. So she just threw in everything she could think of because no was ever going to read it. I’m like, “Whoa.”
I saw that too. And so I definitely also am holding some, some blame to, like, an editor or, like, why didn’t–you know it’s fine, again, if this is how she wrote it, but then why didn’t somebody else be like, “Okay, like, I think this is a really fun idea. I think people are gonna like the sexy time travel. But like, maybe let’s cut out some of the herbs. Maybe we don’t need all the herbs?”
Plus, like, the sex scenes are so vague. We’re going to read a couple of them. But they’re like, you can’t even tell what’s happening in most of them. They’re just really like, flowery and bizarre. And the thing that like super bothered me about them all is that she’s like, afraid to say the word nipple. She’s afraid to say a lot of things, but particularly the word nipple, so she just refers to the tips of breasts constantly. And it made me start picturing these, like, conical breasts.
The one they got me a sh–I mean, I don’t even know if like if Claire would know the word boner or like, whatever, but, like, she would never say like boner or erection or anything like that, she would always just talk about like, “the strength of his wanting” or like “I could feel his desire pressing in.” And I think a lot of that is like pretty standard romance novel stuff, too. But just like, it happens so much, like, she’s constantly talking about Jamie’s dick and it’s always like the most like, flowery way. It’s like you are talking about his boner like, let’s dial this down one notch, please.
Oh, God, and there are so many sex scenes that start with her being like, “No, stop. You’re hurting me. I don’t want to have sex now. Like, stop it!”
Yeah, like “We’re in public. We’re on a rock surrounded by your bros–oh, okay, I guess that feels good.”
Yeah, like and every single time, she’s like, “All right. Like, I guess now that you’ve shoved it in me, we can have sex and I’m gonna love it.” But I’m like–oh, it’s so cringe worthy!
This is kind of random, I guess. But did you like how she would describe her first husband as super sophisticated and urbane and considerate? And then she’s like, “Oh, my God, he’s going down on me. I’ve never felt this before.”
Like, to be honest–like, I went back and forth–like, I felt like she–and it could just be because, like, she starts, like, whatever, like, seeing rapey Randall, whenever she thinks of her husband’s face. But like, I felt more from, like, the descriptions of what Frank, the future husband, was like, that Diana Gabaldon was trying to get me to like him more than his actions would have made me like him, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I agree. The problem–like every couple pages, there would have to be like, “Oh, everything’s so difficult because I’m married in the future. To this guy I love. I totally love him. Yes I love him so much. Really. I love that dude.” And everyone’s like, “Who are we talking about again?” Because he’s super boring. And no one cares about him?
Yeah. And he, like, kinda, like, this is supposed to be their second honeymoon, and he blows her off every day to go study genealogy?
Right. Like, I would be kind of fine if the narrative or like–oh, I feel–if she were openly like, “Well, you know, it’s kind of a marriage of convenience, because of the war, like, whatever. And like, you know, now that we’re reconnecting, maybe I realized we don’t have that much in common.” I think that would be perfectly valid. But it isn’t that, it’s like, “Oh, I love him so much. But I guess I just love Jamie a little bit more. So I’ll stay in the past.”
So just to spoil you guys for books you’re never going to read–
–she ends up having to go in the past later, back to–back to the future later–
Which is still our past.
So she–cause she thinks Jamie dies in the big battle where all the Scots die.
But she ends up going back to Frank like pregnant three years later. And he’s a dick.
But she’s also been gone for three years, and shows up pregnant and [something] so…
Just so then, ultimately, like, does she go back to the past again? Or like what?
Yes, she does.
And the world’s–uh, the American Revolution happens.
All right. Well, that’s good to know. Oh, my gosh, yeah. It’s just it’s a really weird book. And it’s not like if I was like, even–even–I don’t know.
To me I’m like–on one hand it makes sense to me that this started off as fan fiction, but also I’m a little surprised because, to me, reading this and, like, its popularity, it’s one of those things where I’m like, I wish I could just tell every middle-aged woman who comes to the library and is excited about this book, I wish I could just be like, “Hey, did you know about fanfiction? Like maybe you should try that. Like, I think you would like that.” Um, so I guess she already knows and she has decided to go–Like, to me, I feel like this would be more satisfying if she had just like kept it as like, “Yeah, this is my Doctor Who fan fiction and now I don’t need to have all this other explanatory stuff, like, you’ve got the Doctor Who part and now here we go.”
I don’t know if it was really as much, like, actual fan fiction as just she liked that actor, character a lot and just made Jamie kind of like based on him You know what I mean?
Oh, okay. I don’t even know what Doctor Who character this is so I don’t–
And it–but like, I haven’t read 50 Shades of Grey yet, which is you know, upcoming–it is upcoming on the podcast, listeners, so you can stop asking us to do it. It’s planned. Um, but I’ve heard from people who have read it that it’s very, like, the similar thing about it that people, you know, it started its life as fanfiction, but it’s not as good as most fanfiction is. Like, still people are like, “If you really want to read good porn, read fanfiction, don’t read this.”
Right, but we’re gonna read it!
Like, apparently this author hates fan fiction so much.
Oh yeah, she literally refer–like says, “if you–when you write fanfiction, it’s like you’re raping my children.”
And she talks about how it’s, like, the porn is really gross, is the funniest part to me. Just, like, awful sex fantasies. I’m like, “Have you read your own stuff?”
Wait, so if it’s like raping her creation, is it like regular rape or is it like scary gay rape?
Well, I guess it depends on if you’re writing, like normal, like regular sex or scary gay sex.
Regular het sex with, like, the tips of your nipples–the tips of your breasts and you know–
The strength of his wanting.
Combining. There’s one part where he touches her vag and he’s like, “Oh, it just slippery as seaweed,” and I was like, “This is the least erotic porn!”
Oh my god, I can’t believe we forgot to say this. So speaking of things from seas, or lakes, the fucking Loch Ness Monster is in this book.
Oh my God.
For like a page.
A page and then it comes back later because then it’s evidence that she’s a witch. Because some guy’s like, “Yeah, I saw her talking to the Loch Ness Monster. She’s a witch.” What?
And his friends are like, “You’re drunk. Go away.”
Like, there is literally–
The Loch Ness Monster is a fucking dinosaur.
Yeah. And it’s real. And it’s in the book for literally two pages.
Yeah, there are parts where she’ll talk about herbs for, like, literally five pages. But the Loch Ness Monster just gets a brief mention and like, that’s it.
I would have traded a hundred pages of herbs for, like, five more Loch Ness Monster pages.
[Laughter] Oh, man.
I feel like she and the Loch Ness Monster, who was a dinosaur, bonded over being time travelers.
I guess let’s get into our dramatic readings. And then you can hear all about their weird sex life and the Loch Ness Monster. And, you know, honestly, if if this were representative, we haven’t chosen any herb pages to read aloud. But we should have picked, like, 20 just to just to inflict this on everyone else.
But we won’t.
Okay. So we’re going to start off, Erica and I are going to read one of their earliest sex scenes. And it’s real weird. And Erica will be Claire. And I’m going to be Jamie, and I really want to try doing a Scottish accent for this. But for me, and this is a recurring problem as I read the book, like, she writes out the Scottish dialect kind of, and to me, every time I read it, I just heard Groundskeeper Willie from The Simpsons in my head, and I was like, “This isn’t sexy.” But I guess maybe that’s an age thing too. Because to me, I grew up with The Simpsons. I grew up with Groundskeeper Willie. Maybe, like, she grew up with whoever this Scottish Doctor Who guy was and I don’t know, it–there’s definitely a huge market for like, Scottish romance novels, guy in a kilt on the cover. And to me, I’m just like, “why?” Like, not sexy. But to many: yes, sexy, apparently.
Renata and Erica 42:21
[Renata and Erica read a sex scene between Claire and Jamie]
So right, like, I mean, I think that was kind of weird toothy blow job. But from the way that she refuses to describe it in any sort of detail, it’s just like, it could be anything. I don’t know. Just anything that involves her teeth.
Yeah, cuz I think there’s at least one other place where it seems like it might be his first blow job, but you really can’t tell.
Right? I mean, it’s clear he’s enjoying it, but why? Why? I don’t know.
Oh, god, it’s so weird.
All right, I’m gonna read about the Loch Ness Monster, or whatever it’s supposed to be. It’s the Loch Ness Monster.
Yeah, cuz I don’t think they’re at Loch Ness, but I guess I just assumed that all Scottish Lake monsters are the Loch Ness Monster
[Kait reads the, like, five paragraphs about the Loch Ness Monster that are in this book]
So that’s the only mention of the Loch Ness Monster in this literal 900 page book.
Except for–except for the rejected evidence at her witchcraft trial.
Yeah, like one–there’s one line in addition to this. Freaking Loch Ness Monster and they give it three paragraphs and one line. I’m disgusted.
I want to read the novel from the point of view of the Loch Ness Monster that has one line being like, “And then there was this lady.”
I would. I would rather read that!
You know what, though? Honestly, I bet his book would also just be pages and pages of herbs. Like, “I was swimming in a lake I found some really good algae, it had some curative properties. My ancestors would have used it as a bandage but I’m just gonna eat it. [pause] I’m a monster.”
All right. I’m gonna do another one. So we kind of like we obviously touched upon like, you know, rapey Captain Randall. But there’s like a hardcore gay panic throughout this book. Like, just–
These men in skirts are not fucking around. They are aggressively heterosexual except for the two villains. And they are very concerned that you will think otherwise.
Because she’s not homophobic, cause later on, in one of the other books, there’s a sympathetic gay character and he gets a spin off.
Does he get raped?
No, but he’s also in love with Jamie.
Oh my God.
He is irresistible.
You know my favorite thing about everyone being in love with Jamie, though? Is that apparently he gets that shit from his mom. Because that dude wanting to fuck his mom is the–
Oh my god. Alright. So, this is–this is Jamie telling Claire about what happened after, um back when we were saying before that he was taken by this group of British soldiers and accused of a murder he didn’t commit. And, like, they almost raped his sister. So this is when he’s in jail. He was sentenced to two floggings. And after the first one, this is what happens.
[Kait reads about some gay panic floggings]
So yeah. He later–after that, he later finds out he takes the beating and he, like, beats him super hard. He beats him so hard, his father who’s watching has a heart attack and dies.
And, Jamie later finds out–when a doctor is tending to him, he gives him a Bible of another kid who was also in prison there who had hung himself the week before because Randall raped him too. And he couldn’t live with himself so he killed himself. So yeah.
Again, like, it’s–it’s only funny because it’s soooo over the top.
Yeah, it’s entirely–it’s like honestly, like, obviously rape isn’t funny. Like, the, like, crazy over the top gay panic, consistent abuse of this one particular character and his total irresistibility is what’s funny. Because it’s ridiculous.
Especially, again, the last like–I don’t know how many hundred pages of the book, it’s just total hurt/comfort, like going into so much detail about his torture and everything.
Soooo much detail.
So much. You think it’s done, and then he’s like, “No Claire, I have another thing to confess to you.” And we’re like, “Oh. Great, there’s more.”
Uh huh. Also, we forgot to say–um Kait brought it up. Jamie calls her Sassenach, which I guess means like–what? British person or foreigner or something? But the way it’s spelled and the way I don’t know anything about this, I consistently read it that he was calling her Sasquatch. Which explains why she would have kinship with the Loch Ness Monster! But is not actually what he’s saying.I guess.
Okay, and then the last part we’re going to read is another sex scene.
There are a lot of sex scenes in this book. And they’re all really weird. I feel like this one is like particularly, ah…
It’s very emblematic.
Yeah. It gives you a good idea of the weirdness of all the sex scenes just from this one. I guess. Is what I’m trying…
Oh also it happens after–there’s a part where Claire disobeys Jamie and before that he told her like, “If you disobey me I’ll spank you.” And then, like, she does disobey him and he does spank her and it’s–it’s–it’s a little bit 50 Shades, like reading this I feel like now Diana Gabaldon was like, “Man, I wish I would have put more, like, S&M in here, like, I could have had 50 Shades of Grey money because I–” you know, like they describe her spanking a lot and like how you know the pain mixed with pleasure and like blah blah blah and so there that I think comes back a little bit into this sex scene Erica is gonna read, but not as much.
[Erica reads the first part of the sex scene and then starts cracking up] I’m sorry.
No, Diana Gabaldon should be sorry. You have nothing to apologize for.
[Erica finishes the sex scene which involves way too much “womb pounding.”] And I’m gonna stop there.
Good womb pounding.
My God, so hot.
After the next scene, she gets up to, like, go the bathroom and she’s like, “My insides feel like churned butter.”
Oh my gosh. Well, I guess that brings us to: Would You Rather be in the year 1743 with a super sexy Scottish romance novel hero for a husband? Or be in 1945 with a bookish, vaguely condescending husband, but also running water and vaccinations?
As husbands are the only answer here I’m going to immediately choose 1945 because even if I’m stuck with a dude that I have to be married to, at least I will have running water and cars and vaccinations and you know, antibiotics and whatever the hell else modern conveniences she doesn’t have–
I will also go with 1945 for basically every reason in the world.
I don’t know guys, I kind of want to get my cervix pounded.
Seems like her 1945 husband wasn’t doing it.
Yeah, I mean, I–ah, God. Like, I guess I get the appeal of this whole like, you know, they’re basic–she’s basically like, “I want to go off the grid and, like, live in a hippie commune where, like, we grow herbs” and like, you know, and I like, I like camping. I can kind of get the appeal of that and like, you know, he seems pretty hot but uh…. and, as I, as I have stated in previous episodes, I’m also very tempted by time travel just in general, but–and you can see the Loch Ness Monster if you went back…but I guess I’m gonna have to stick with the 40s too, I mean, I just there’s…there’s too much gross shit in the past.
Right, for the next Would You Rather: Would you rather this book have more witchcraft, or more Loch Ness monsters?
I’m going to go witchcraft. Specifically, I wish it had way more Jello in it and I wish, like, way more of her witch–I wish she actually were a witch. Which I still think maybe she was because she did do that weird spell on Claire? Yeah, I just I would like more of that. I would like a whole coven of witches that Claire hangs out with. That would be great.
I kinda would like it if the Loch Ness Monster had shown up at the witchcraft trial and saved her instead of Jamie.
Oh my god and she just like rode away on its back?
I’m going to take it–
Okay but foreshadowing! There was foreshadowing.
I’m going to take it one further and say that I wish that the Loch Ness Monster was a witch.
And was the head of the olden time Scotland witch coven and I don’t know maybe also was a time traveler. I mean, like obviously it’s maybe implied that it was like a dinosaur time traveler but maybe also the Loch Ness Monster was a time traveler from the future. And then they’re just like a cool future witches coven in olden times Scotland and I guess they could still talk about herbs sometimes but like maybe a little less herbs.
Yeah, dial it back. Yeah.
Okay, last one: would you rather meet your future spouse via time travel to the past or ChristianMingle.com?
is that not a service that ChristianMingle.com offers?
Oh, time travel. I mean, I think only like theologically but not actually physically time traveling.
Yeah, like I think you could find somebody who believed–had old timey beliefs but they would still like physically live now.
Well, I’m torn as always between my desire to time travel and my loyalty to ChristianMingle.com–
Who, just as a reminder, are a dedicated sponsor of this podcast.
Although they have never given us any money.
But they will remain a loyal sponsor until the time in which their lawyers request that they no longer hold that position. Um, so I think this time I’m gonna go with time travel. Don’t hate me ChristianMingle.com, I still love you. This is just a hypothetical.
I feel like either option I could find somebody who wants to call me a witch and spank me and that’s really all I want. So.
I have to go time travel just because I feel like you get a wider pool? Because that’s [garbled].
That’s–I mean you can find a Catholic or Protestant in the past either one. I’ll choose ChristianMingle.com because they are such a good sponsor. And, you know, like–like I said, I think either way I could find somebody I can work with.
And with that, I believe we’re on to Readers Advisory.
Yeah, my number one recommendation is just fanfiction. Whatever it is that you like, I bet you can find some cool sexy hurt/comfort fanfiction. And if you really like this book, I think you will find that that is really what you like is hurt/comfort fanfiction. And it’s out there.
You can tweet at us if you want specific recommendations.
Also, kind of along the lines if you’re looking for better sex scenes, um, I’ve never actually read the following recommendation. But, um, a friend of mine–who will remain nameless because I think that she thinks of them as, like, a super guilty pleasure and would not want her name associated with them on the podcast–was reading this series of books by Suzanne Enoch. And one of them–the first one, I think, is called A Rogue with a Brouge. And they’re all like, you know, sexy….Scot with a Cot? I don’t know. Like, they all rhyme and they’re all Scottish and they’re all like those sexy–
Wait, did you say Scot with a Cot?
I made that up. I don’t know what the rest of them are actually called.
But they’re all rhymey. Oh, Mad, Bad, and Covered in Plaid is one of them. So if you like hot Scotsman and sex scenes, I would recommend these books without having read them. They seem to fulfill those requirements.
Um, I would–I haven’t read this either. I would probably recommend the Clan of the Cave Bear Series if you’re looking for, like , old timey sex. I think that would do it for you, also. Even old timeier. Prehistoric. Oh, I bet it has monsters in it too. I bet it has–maybe I don’t know about a lot–I bet there’s dinosaurs in it.
I’ve read the first one. I had to read the first one for school, which is before they get sexy. Um, they are rapey, though, still!
We did have to read–the first one is rapey, and we did have to read this for–
Wait, I’m sorry, what grade was this for?
I think 10th or 11th.
Yeah. It was honors? Um, but yeah, another book that I had to read for school that was actually good–and you should definitely read–is The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. If you are looking for time travel to the past sort of things. It’s about a scientist, archaeologist, woman historian from the future, who goes–time travels to the past during the Black Death, and how she deals with that. But it’s really good and you should read it.
That is probably the book has made me cry more than any book ever. Which is a recommendation.
If you like sexy time travel, you might like The Time Traveler’s Wife, by…oh no. Who wrote that?
Uh, I don’t remember.
It was famous. Oh, no.
But you can google it like, it’s super famous.
It’s by Audrey Niffenegger. Yes, I thought it was good. It made me cry a little bit. She does. Or rather he doesn’t go back so far as as old timey Scotland, but…it’s good.
And a kids book that I’d recommend if you want to read kids book instead of this book filled with sex and beatings and gay panic would be Storyteller by Patricia Reilly Giff. It’s about a girl who uncovers an ancestor who looks very much like her and kind of follows her footsteps through the Revolutionary War.
Oh, another thing I would recommend: there’s–we’ll have a link to it–there’s a blog called WTF Bad Romance covers. And they specifically have a tag for, um, “Objectified Scotsmen.” And it’s just sexy–or trying to be sexy–dudes in kilts. And, you know, the blog is very funny and the covers are hilarious. But also if you are just looking for sexy men in kilts like there are tons of romance novels that will happily provide them to you. And I bet most of them are shorter than Outlander. So that is something.
Yeah. But we’ll have some more information about these books and others that we don’t mention here on the website in the as mentioned page…if you’d like to learn more about any of them.
I don’t have any books to recommend, but I would say I think if you’ve sort of enjoyed this, but were like, “Wow, this is way too long and the pacing is horrible,” the TV show is kind of fun. Like, I sort of enjoy the characters and it’s basically trash but fun trash? I just appreciate that there’s like prestige television that’s very much aimed for ladies. So.
Yeah, and it’s on Starz with Z if you would like to view that. Yeah, are tha–is the actor that plays Jamie, is he super sexy? Actually, I’m going to Google him right now.
You know, he actually, like, I am–I was watching the show and, like, just from stills, you’re like, “oh, he’s handsome.” But in the show, he’s very charismatic. And you’re like, “wow, like they obviously cast this guy just to be like sexy guy every ladies attracted to,” so I’m kind of angry that actually worked? So yeah.
Okay, I mean, I’m looking at stills now. Oh, my God. One of the stills is of him being flogged. So that’s cool.
He is, like, tied, like his hands are, like, in a crucified position. But he’s still wearing his kilt, and he is topless. OK, Google image that if you’re interested. Right on.
Alright, well, let’s move on then to our candy pairings. Much like a restaurant might recommend a fine wine to go with your dinner, we’re going to recommend a candy that you can eat while reading this book, in a complementary fashion.
I would also recommend, if you’re going to read this, get drunk.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I’ll guess I’ll start. I didn’t actually have a candy pairing for this book. What I recommended instead was jerky because it’s not technically candy, but will give you the real life olden times Scotland feel of the book while you’re eating it. But it will also provide protein and sustenance to sustain you because you will be spending a very long time reading this book and you’ll need that energy.
It would have been more realistic if you would have just recommended herbs.
Now I kinda wish I had.
My candy pairing is–similarly relates to how fucking long this book is. I recommend everlasting gobstoppers because they will last forever and so will this book.
And my candy pairing is basically those giant mixture grab bags of candy you get around Halloween, which they have like some good stuff in them like chocolate bars, but there’s also a bunch of weird shit. Like, I don’t know, black licorice or tootsie rolls and stuff. It’s just a bunch of stuff that doesn’t go together. And they last forever. So it’s like six months later and you still have candy in the bag and you’re like, “Ugh.”
Good choices all around.
Okay, now we’ll state with the moral of the story is.
The moral of the story, I think, is that life was better in olden times, mostly because the men were way hotter.
I’ll say, back in the 18th century, men were men, unless they were gay, in which case they were monsters. But also the Loch Ness Monster is real and probably gay.
My moral is that regular spankings and reminiscing about torture are the keys to a good marriage.
All sounds about right.
And now, speaking of monsters, we will move on to Duarte’s Corner, where my cat Duarte will weigh in with his two cents on the book.
Alright, thank you, Duarte, appreciate you sharing. I agree. It was definitely way too long.
Yeah, I didn’t think of your brilliant solution to just scratch out a whole lot of the pages though. Um, so, good, I’ll keep that in mind for future versions. Although mine was on Kindle. So it might not have been as useful for me.
I honestly just didn’t know that Duarte had so many feelings about herbs.
Well his favorite herb is catnip. And you know, of all the herbs that she talks about, I don’t even think she mentioned that once.
What a loss.
All right, any humans have any other closing thoughts?
This book was fucking long.
Like, I’m a fast reader. I can usually like blow through one of these books in like a day. And I swear to God, I spent like a fucking week reading this book. And there were a couple days where all I did all day was read the book. I don’t know what…I don’t understand.
It’s so long. Yeah, at the same time, I mean, this is another one where it’s like, it wasn’t really for me. It was definitely too long. And it’s, it’s definitely sort of escapist fiction aimed at women. And clearly, a lot of women have really enjoyed this and great, great for them. But I do really want to let them know that fanfiction exists.
There were honestly…. Like, I think I liked it kind of more than the two of you because there were characters and scenes that I really enjoyed. It’s just, again, it was so long, and there was so much other shit that wasn’t that stuff?
Yeah, and I think also if, um, if I had been reading it just at my own leisurely pace–but I wasn’t, I was like, “shit, we got to like, record this podcast by January like, whatever.” So yeah, I think if–yeah, if you were just reading this for fun, you could kind of skim and maybe skip some of the herb parts, which I mean, I still did. But you could kind of skip those and just read the sexy parts or like, you know, whatever you’re doing. Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like–I mean, especially because some of the books that we’ve read have been, like, bad but super problematic. And like–
I mean, this was, in in the gay panic parts of it.
Yeah. Like, there have been books that we’ve read that are like bad, trash, garbage, should be set on fire. And this is just a book that I was like, “This is not a good book.”
It’s too long. But it didn’t offend me or make me feel physically ill the way Christmas Sweater did.
Yeah. So I mean, like, I feel like there’s books like Rush Revere, that are like, “This should not exist. It’s, it’s wrong. And it’s dangerous.” And there are books like The Christmas Sweater that are like, “This should not exist, like this is between you and your therapist do not put this out into the world.” And then there’s books like this, where it’s like, “How does this really exist? But it does–”
Yeah, this should be on fanfiction.net and not published. But..meh. All right. Um, also, I will say this podcast episode has definitely run longer than normal. But if you look at it as a percent–like if you did a ratio of minutes we spent talking about it to how many pages that there are, like, we were really on target.
Yeah, I think it’s literally like 900 pages long. The book, like–and not- like, I’m not exaggerating by using the word “literally.” I mean, I think that it clocks in at 900 pages.
That sounds–I would have no trouble believing that to be true.
Yeah, Becca looked it up. But uh, anyway. Thank you for joining us, Erica. Sorry, we made you reread this book and then talk about it. But it sounds like you at least didn’t lose your life to it the way that we did.
Well, you know, I don’t have a job right now. So.
So you might as well time travel.
Something to focus on.
And if you liked this episode, and you like listening to this podcast, please remember to rate in review us on iTunes and Stitcher, which are the places you can go to get more episodes.
And you can visit WorstBestsellers.com for our Readers Advisory and see the books that we recommend. You can like us on Facebook, you can follow us on Twitter. You can travel to our homes via the use of henges.
That might be a little strange, though.
I’m just putting it out there.
Yeah. You can email us at firstname.lastname@example.org with your thoughts and fanfiction recommendations and favorite herbs and suggestions for future podcasts.
Oh, you can follow me personally on twitter @renatasnacks.
You can follow me personally on Twitter @fourteenacross.
Oh, oh, and coming up next, our next episode will be Need for Speed: The Movie Novelization which is written by Brian Kelleher. It is based on the–it is the novelization of the movie Need for Speed, which is an adaptation of a video game.
Which is not a part of the Fast and Furious franchise. Although it sounds like it should be.
It’s–yeah. I can’t wait to talk about it.
All right. So it sounds like that’s it for this time, and we’ll see you guys next time.
Bye. Thanks for listening.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai (and Kait)